# Last edited on 2014-04-07 17:19:41 by stolfilocal
# NOT POSTED

[quote author=aminorex link=topic=178336.msg6113915#msg6113915 date=1396893515]
I thought it was your position that [Amazon, Overstock etc.] were accretive to the value of btc.  Have you repented?
[/quote]
This discussion is independent of the price of bitcoin, of course; it is about bitcoin being a cheap, safe, convenient, etc. payment method for a large number of people.  That is why I understand by "success".

Amazon and Overstock cannot yet be counted as part of that success yet, because they depend on BitPay, work only for domestic customers, and are not interesting for people who do no own bitcoins already.  What I meant is that, if bitcoin is banned, those merchants will be permanently excluded from that success, even more than they are now.

[quote]
Depends on what you find entertaining.  Blackmarket means vice. [ ... ] It would depend on your landlord, your barrista, your newsie.  [ ... ] It doesn't matter really, as long as the blackmarket is liquid.  You cash out when you want to spend fiat.
[/quote]

Most customers and merchants would not want to run the risk.  Where would you cash out enough for a car, for a computer, for trip overseas?  You could easily send the bitcoins to a gangster in Russia, but how would he deliver the cash to you?

[quote]
Yes, that is pretty fair characterization of a black market. [ ... ] Black markets are free markets.
[/quote]

A free market is one where customers can freely choose among all existing suppliers, and new suppliers can easily enter the market.  That is certainly NOT the case of black markets. 

I agree that SOME illegal payments are morally defensible, but if bitcoin would make illegal payments easy and safe, MOST of its illegal uses would be for real crimes (murder, blackmail, robbery, theft, corruption, whatever).  And if governments were to ban bitcoin, illegal payments would be its only utility.  Then the world would be better without it.

Moreover, any government that banned bitcoin could easily block access to the miner's network and/or easily track down its users, in many ways.