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1041  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 07:46:39 PM
No way in hell. MtGox could not absorb hundreds of thousands of coins being taken off the market without going well in to the 10000's/BTC

It was fake money buying real BTC. Most logical explanation.
I've heard that before. Can you explain where the BTC are if the bot actually purchased them with fake money? I've never seen any explanation proving that Gox ever had those actual BTC.
[/quote]

Here is a scenario: since sometime in 2013, when the demand in China starte to rise, someone at MtGOX bought 800'000 of coins from other customers, mostly 10% above market, with imaginary money.  He sent the coins to China, selling them there for yuan.  The plan was to get the yuan converted to dollars and deposit the latter at MtGOX, to make good on those purchases.  The PBoC decrees however made that impossible (or someone embezzled the money on the way).
1042  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 06:44:17 PM
Willy was probably the buying end of an arbitrage pump at MtGOX, the selling end being perhaps at BTC-China. 
No way in hell. MtGox could not absorb hundreds of thousands of coins being taken off the market without going well in to the 10000's/BTC
It was fake money buying real BTC. Most logical explanation.

I did not say that it was real money.  In fact, that is my explanation too for what happened to those 660'000 BTC.
1043  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 06:36:51 PM
Did I? I have always viewed the volume as inflated, and I remember having said so long ago. I think they are legit in the sense that there are real people trading there. There may be some completely fraudulent volume, but the same can be said of any other exchange.

By the way, I do remember that the Chinese exchanges were supposed to abolish margin, 0% fee etc. in a plan to appease the Chinese regulators. WTF happened to that?

Obviously, trading fees inhibit trading.  People cannot have high-frequency robots exploiting every 0.2% increase in price if the trading fee is 0.5%.  But, are those micro-trades "fake"? 

One evidence that Huobi's volume is not fake is that it drops to nearly zero between 02:00 am and 05:00 am, local time; except when Great Things are Afoot and trading goes on through the night.  It also drops on major holidays when banks are closed.  (Admitted, it is only weak evidence, since those patterns could be faked too.)  OKCoin had the same daily pattern, but trading dropped to only ~10% of the daytime volume.  That 10% could be fake volume, or fully automated robots, or clients outside  China.

If there is a choice between one exchange with trading fees and one without, clients -- especially high-frequency traders (HFTs) -- will generally choose the latter.  When BTC-China added fees, its volume seems to have moved to OKCoin and Huobi.

My understanding was that the Chinese exchanges never promised to abolish the 0% fees.  In their joint statement in early May, they had pledged to end margin trading and curb HFT, as well as stop marketing bitcoin.  I don't think that they were specifically ordered to so so by the regulators (who were more concerned with AML/KYC issues).  Rather, I understood that their less-sophisticated traders were unhappy and losing confidence.  However, it is possible that those customers who lost money complained to the government, compounding to its pressure.

According to an interview with Bobby Lee, a couple of months ago, it seems that some of those exchanges later broke their pledge and reinstated margin and/or HFT.
1044  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 06:07:44 PM
[ ... ] using BTCChina to crash. Volume reported by bitcoincharts is greater than Bitstamp, Bitfinex and BTC-E together, so it could be fake.

Since about Oct/10, BTC-China's volume has been comparable to what it was in Nov 2013 (~50--60 kBTC/day). 

During the Nov bubble, OKCoin was ~30 kBTC/day, Huobi ~20, MtGOX ~25, Bitstamp ~20, BTC-e ~20, Bitfinex ~5.

After the december decrees, BTC-China they lost nearly all their volume, while Huobi and OKCoin grew.

The November bubble cannot have been solely a MtGOX internal mega-pump.  There is a plausible explanation for it, which is the opening of the huge Chinese mainland market of amateur speculators.   That demand required huge arbitrage activity, buying hundreds of thousands of coins in the "Western" exchanges (including MtGOX) and selling them to speculators and holders in China.  Arbitragers (which were probably exchange owners) must have made tons of money that month. Willy was probably the buying end of an arbitrage pump at MtGOX, the selling end being perhaps at BTC-China. 
1045  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL fucked us over again on: November 04, 2014, 02:01:30 PM
What was the Silk Road auction in terms of a drop in the market?
It was on June 27.  There was no clear effect on price.

The rise by ~10% on July 3 may have been due to the rumor that the auction closed well above market and/or that Draper did not intend to sell the coins on the exchanges.  But the drop by ~10% on June 10 may have been due to fears about the auction. 

The auction closed as significantly higher than market rate didnt it?

I have not seen any conclusive news on that.  @BurtW (?) had submitted a FOIA request but I do not know whether it was answered.

My guess is that it was somewhat below market (<600$).  My only argument: if he had paid above market, he would have disclosed the price, to pump it up.
1046  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL fucked us over again on: November 04, 2014, 12:32:21 PM
What was the Silk Road auction in terms of a drop in the market?
It was on June 27.  There was no clear effect on price.

The rise by ~10% on July 3 may have been due to the rumor that the auction closed well above market and/or that Draper did not intend to sell the coins on the exchanges.  But the drop by ~10% on June 10 may have been due to fears about the auction.  
1047  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 11:54:09 AM
i hope someone else in the money 2020 give good lecture about bitcoin ...
Bitcoin emperor JorgeStolfi is going to speak tomorrow! I expect at least a 300% rise during/after his speech, and that is still a conservative outlook.
Yes, my speeches at the faculty meetings usually have that kind of effect.  Cheesy
Really, faculty meetings? I always imagined you to be more of an emeritus type Tongue
Still some years to go...  Undecided
1048  Other / Off-topic / Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: November 04, 2014, 08:51:13 AM
does he stopped wearing glasses because he's totally blind now?
If that was the case, then why would he still have a contacts fetish?
Wouldn't I be still able to feel them, (say phisical contact) without eyesight?
How long have you pennin' be in front of still?
Shouldn't reefer come with a warning that you might mess words up?  Roll Eyes
Are you be still doing that?
Wait, by "contacts" you guys do not mean those things that get electrical types turned on, do you?
Do you need Viagra?
What has Viagra to do with Carl Sagan's bad ripoff of Stanislaw Lem's His Master's Voice?
Do you live in the Nevada Desert?
Is that where one can contact Katy Perry?
Can Kate Perry make me a sandwich?
Did you know I live in Sandwich? (let me rephrase that)
Is the Nevada Desert in Illinois?
1049  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 08:42:15 AM
i hope someone else in the money 2020 give good lecture about bitcoin ...
Bitcoin emperor JorgeStolfi is going to speak tomorrow! I expect at least a 300% rise during/after his speech, and that is still a conservative outlook.

Yes, my speeches at the faculty meetings usually have that kind of effect.  Cheesy
1050  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 07:57:59 AM
Excellent FUD Jorge! Good work!  Smiley *thumbs up*
whatever it is, the price rebound nicely.

Honey badger is Chinese.  Honey badger doesn't give a damn about Winkles, SEC, COIN.
1051  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 07:29:02 AM
So the Winklevoss twins did not even mention the COIN ETF at Money 20/20, is that right?

I suppose that there are restrictions about what one can say in public about an ETF before it is approved by the SEC.  But they did talk a lot about it before, e.g. on BloombergTV, right?

Could their silence be somehow related to the alleged freezing of SMBIT by the SEC?


Excellent FUD Jorge! Good work!  Smiley *thumbs up*


Thanks, but all the merit should go to the Winkles and to the author of that linked post.  Wink
1052  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 07:06:48 AM
So the Winklevoss twins did not even mention the COIN ETF at Money 20/20, is that right?

I suppose that there are restrictions about what one can say in public about an ETF before it is approved by the SEC.  But they did talk a lot about it before, e.g. on BloombergTV, right?

Could their silence be somehow related to the alleged freezing of SMBIT by the SEC?
1053  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL fucked us over again on: November 04, 2014, 06:43:54 AM
how many coins does BFL have? Not sure if or where its been posted, but if you read the following link, they were granted (the govt) permission to sell of their coins to cover expenses, refunds, etc.. They most likely arent going bid it out, these coins will probably just hit the market as the FTC probably doesnt really know how it works..

http://ia802308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.123.0.pdf

Lets hope they get offers from big groups etc like the marshals did or we could see a complete nose dive in btc price..
Hope Im wrong.

I expect the coins will be auctioned in largish lots, like the DPR seized ones were, for the same reasons.
1054  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 06:36:06 AM
And more selling pressure: "BFL-owned Bitcoins about to be sold under Receivership according to new court documents"

Does anyone knows how many BTC BFL hold?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l85y6/bflowned_bitcoins_about_to_be_sold_under/

Check the thread, I saw ~24'000 BTC there somewhere.  But there were 40'000 at some point it seems:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9428397#msg9428397
1055  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 02:19:56 AM
FTC appointed receiver is to convert ~24'000 BTC seized from BFL (and EMC?) to cash "on a systematic and reasoned basis"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9427254#msg9427254
It is interesting how much of an impact merely flashing less than 7 days worth of mined coins would likely have on the price.

But, I doubt they will be flashed or dumped on an exchange. My guess is otc or gradually through a payment processor like coinbase, which will in turn sell on an exchange.

I would think that it has to be by public auction(s), for legal reasons.  (Any other solution would expose them to accusations of undue privilege and/or harming the customers by not getting the best price.  An auction may get a lousy price, but they could not be blamed for that.  Trust me, I know how civil servants think.  Grin)

If so, they may hand it to the USMS auction service, or hire an auction house. 
1056  Other / Off-topic / Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: November 04, 2014, 01:44:39 AM
does he stopped wearing glasses because he's totally blind now?
If that was the case, then why would he still have a contacts fetish?
Wouldn't I be still able to feel them, (say phisical contact) without eyesight?
How long have you pennin' be in front of still?
Shouldn't reefer come with a warning that you might mess words up?  Roll Eyes
Are you be still doing that?
Wait, by "contacts" you guys do not mean those things that get electrical types turned on, do you?
Do you need Viagra?
What has Viagra to do with Carl Sagan's bad ripoff of Stanislaw Lem's His Master's Voice?
Do you live in the Nevada Desert?
Is that where one can contact Katy Perry?
1057  Other / Off-topic / Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: November 04, 2014, 01:34:59 AM
does he stopped wearing glasses because he's totally blind now?
If that was the case, then why would he still have a contacts fetish?
Wouldn't I be still able to feel them, (say phisical contact) without eyesight?
How long have you pennin' be in front of still?
Shouldn't reefer come with a warning that you might mess words up?  Roll Eyes
Are you be still doing that?
Wait, by "contacts" you guys do not mean those things that get electrical types turned on, do you?
Do you need Viagra?
What has Viagra to do with Carl Sagan's bad ripoff of Stanislaw Lem's His Master's Voice?
1058  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 01:30:09 AM
FTC appointed receiver is to convert ~24'000 BTC seized from BFL (and EMC?) to cash "on a systematic and reasoned basis"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9427254#msg9427254
now you have a moral imperative to dump bitcoin.
the more you dump the more will they have to refund from their own pockets.

From what I read, I understand that the FTC got only 1.2 M$ in cash.  They may recover some more from properties that the managers bought (including a 0.5 M$ home and a 0.1 M$ car).  That does not seem enough to cover all refunds due.  In my understanding, the FTC claims that those bitcoins belong to the customers.  But it is tons of legal paperwork, still pouring...
1059  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 01:17:40 AM
FTC appointed receiver is to convert ~24'000 BTC seized from BFL (and EMC?) to cash "on a systematic and reasoned basis"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9427254#msg9427254
Bitcoin doesn't seem to respond so much to "news"

Yeah.

The USMS auction happened on June 27.  In the 4 days prior the price dropped from 600$ to 560$, then recovered to 600$. After the auction it remained at 600$ for another 3 days, then shot up to 650$, perhaps on rumors that Draper had paid over market.  But that 650$ was merely a return to the high of June 2-10.  It may well be that those swings had nothing to do with the auction.
1060  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 04, 2014, 12:57:48 AM
FTC appointed receiver is to convert ~24'000 BTC seized from BFL (and EMC?) to cash "on a systematic and reasoned basis"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9427254#msg9427254
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